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Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113452#msg113452

Published: February 5, 2025 14:23

Quote from: Cantabrigian on Today at 02:06:27 PMQuote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 01:15:04 PMA bit more seriously, I get that it's very much the anglophone down-to-earth, practical, gotta-make-a-buck mindset to wonder why o...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113450#msg113450

Published: February 5, 2025 14:06

Quote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 01:15:04 PMA bit more seriously, I get that it's very much the anglophone down-to-earth, practical, gotta-make-a-buck mindset to wonder why on earth one would bother about philosophy. And sure, if you'...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113449#msg113449

Published: February 5, 2025 14:04

Quote from: Adrian Nayler on Today at 01:46:53 PMIf we accept the journalist's statement that Greek Epicurean philosophy "teaches that fulfilment can be found through the pleasure of everyday things", we may perhaps find more utility...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113445#msg113445

Published: February 5, 2025 13:46

If we accept the journalist's statement that Greek Epicurean philosophy "teaches that fulfilment can be found through the pleasure of everyday things", we may perhaps find more utility in this work if we believe that little lead and plastic figu...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113443#msg113443

Published: February 5, 2025 13:15

A bit more seriously, I get that it's very much the anglophone down-to-earth, practical, gotta-make-a-buck mindset to wonder why on earth one would bother about philosophy. And sure, if you're calculating your annual tax rebates it isn't much use. But ...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113438#msg113438

Published: February 5, 2025 13:07

Quote from: Cantabrigian on Today at 12:46:11 PMQuote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 09:19:46 AM"Those who despise philosophy are doomed to wallow in the sterile futility of Twitter posts and TikTok videos" - Aristotle, De ...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113436#msg113436

Published: February 5, 2025 12:46

Quote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 09:19:46 AM"Those who despise philosophy are doomed to wallow in the sterile futility of Twitter posts and TikTok videos" - Aristotle, De Media InutiliaHmm, I'm not subscribed to eithe...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113434#msg113434

Published: February 5, 2025 09:19

Quote from: Cantabrigian on Today at 07:59:49 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yvrq7dyg6oSadly, it's only philosophy, so no real use to anyone."Those who despis...

Re: First glimpse inside burnt scroll after 2,000 years

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8935.msg113433#msg113433

Published: February 5, 2025 09:04

Quote from: Keraunos on Today at 08:21:00 AMAt least it is not a set of accounts for the estate, holding out the prospect that there might be history books in the collection  To be fair, a set of estate accounts could well prov...

Re: Norwegian language before the Vikings

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8932.msg113426#msg113426

Published: February 5, 2025 06:29

Ca AD 275 wouldn't quite make it the oldest runic inscription - but then I guess there's no reason the inscription couldn't already be old when the stone was broken and placed in the graves.Proto-Norse of this era isn't be much like "classical" Old No...

Bathroom fitter finds Roman coins

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8934.msg113425#msg113425

Published: February 5, 2025 05:57

https://www-leicestermercury-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/bathroom-fitter-finds-once-lifetime-9916537.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17387342582568&csi=0&referre...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113417#msg113417

Published: February 4, 2025 19:09

There is no mention whatsoever of Classes in the Punic Wars.  Nor should there be; the distinction between velites and the heavy infantry is by age and wealth, and then within the heavy infantry the three types are distinguished by broad age bands.  Wh...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113414#msg113414

Published: February 4, 2025 18:52

My overall impression is that this construct requires essentially a rejection what major sources like Livy and Polybius say about the size and organisation of the legion. Size - they give a variety of sizes except 4800 men. Organisation -...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113410#msg113410

Published: February 4, 2025 15:08

Quote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 09:40:44 AMPolybius makes clear that a legion was expanded by a proportional increase in the numbers of hastati, principes (and by implication velites), but not of triarii. The smallest size for a legio...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113406#msg113406

Published: February 4, 2025 10:17

Not particularly wanting to get too moderatorial but I think the side discussion of the historicity and relevance of Pythagoras might be generating more heat than light. Steven has a well-developed and densely argued thesis on this elsewhere and it doe...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113405#msg113405

Published: February 4, 2025 09:40

Quote from: Monad on Today at 05:24:32 AMQuote from: Justin Swanton on February 03, 2025, 08:06:49 PMSure, but an interpretation based on what?Based on my research. I do believe I am entitled to form my own conclusions. Based on s...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113403#msg113403

Published: February 4, 2025 08:21

No thank you, because the very idea that Pythagoras had anything to do with military organisation and deployment is self evidentially nonsense.  Look at enough numbers, discarding those you do not like, from enough different sources without regard to t...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113402#msg113402

Published: February 4, 2025 06:56

Quote from: DBS on Today at 06:35:43 AMMy problem is when you think that numerical ratios ascribed on a rather dodgy basis to Pythagoras had anything, anything, to do with military organisation and deployment.Would you like me to se...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113401#msg113401

Published: February 4, 2025 06:35

My problem is when you think that numerical ratios ascribed on a rather dodgy basis to Pythagoras had anything, anything, to do with military organisation and deployment. Armies comprised the number of men that were available and thought necessary for ...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113400#msg113400

Published: February 4, 2025 05:24

Quote from: DBS on February 03, 2025, 01:48:16 PMPardon me for expecting some precision in language, especially when used in connection with a fallacious extrapolation to a supposed Pythagorean ratio.Oh what is your problem now? Many a schola...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113399#msg113399

Published: February 3, 2025 23:36

Cannae - the battle that just keeps on giving! This would make the Punic Wars Republican Roman army the army that just keeps on giving?!Enjoying the discussion gentlemen. Whilst we can use the old adage to respectively agree to disagree, I love that w...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113396#msg113396

Published: February 3, 2025 20:42

Quote from: Jim Webster on Today at 02:38:52 PMI've not time to check Livy but from memory the last big campaign was Battle of Telamon in 225BC .Oh, the campaigns against the Gauls in northern Italy continued for several years aft...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113392#msg113392

Published: February 3, 2025 20:06

Quote from: Monad on Today at 12:21:37 PMQuote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 11:23:35 AMNo mention of better legions deployed in the centre. I have made that interpretation, that is eight legions formed the centre and...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113377#msg113377

Published: February 3, 2025 14:38

Quote from: DBS on Today at 01:48:16 PMPardon me for expecting some precision in language, especially when used in connection with a fallacious extrapolation to a supposed Pythagorean ratio.No mention of "raw recruits" in Livy, given, as I...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113365#msg113365

Published: February 3, 2025 13:48

Pardon me for expecting some precision in language, especially when used in connection with a fallacious extrapolation to a supposed Pythagorean ratio.No mention of "raw recruits" in Livy, given, as I say, that most of the newly levied troops probably...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113355#msg113355

Published: February 3, 2025 12:21

Quote from: Justin Swanton on Today at 11:23:35 AMNo mention of better legions deployed in the centre. I have made that interpretation, that is eight legions formed the centre and on each flank of the eight legions were three other ...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113354#msg113354

Published: February 3, 2025 12:05

Quote from: DBS on Today at 09:58:24 AMI am sorry, you have not answered the question of how you come up with fourteen legions. I'm assuming that Steven is simply including the allied contingents as "legions".

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113353#msg113353

Published: February 3, 2025 11:56

Quote from: Erpingham on Today at 11:44:46 AMJust to clarify things in my mind:What was the make up of the two legions that end up in the camp? Two Roman, two allied or one of each?  Did they keep their integral cavalry?How many cavalry w...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113352#msg113352

Published: February 3, 2025 11:44

Just to clarify things in my mind:What was the make up of the two legions that end up in the camp? Two Roman, two allied or one of each?  Did they keep their integral cavalry?How many cavalry were there in total? I have a vague recollection that alli...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113351#msg113351

Published: February 3, 2025 11:41

My take on the wedge (FWIW) is that it was a delaying tactic. The whole point of a wedge is that you concentrate your best troops at the tip. These are the first to engage the enemy and hopefully will have enough time to shatter the centre of the enemy...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113350#msg113350

Published: February 3, 2025 11:23

Quote from: Monad on Today at 09:28:02 AMPart of the 14 legions that faced Hannibal's army. I have eight legions as being the driving force, or the force allocated to break through Hannibal's lines. Therefore, the more experienced troops we...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113347#msg113347

Published: February 3, 2025 10:26

Livy affirms, with cautious circumspection, that 16 legions were raised and the number of men in each legion was augmented by 1000, raising the legion's strength to 5000. That means a total of 80,000 men, or two double-consular armies.QuoteThe armie...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113344#msg113344

Published: February 3, 2025 09:58

I am sorry, you have not answered the question of how you come up with fourteen legions.  The sources are consistent in saying eight.  "Roman" casualties would come from those eight, plus the eight allied alae, which would have numbered, if Polybius is...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113343#msg113343

Published: February 3, 2025 09:28

Quote from: DBS on Today at 09:04:53 AMI am confused by your reference to fourteen legions.  There were eight at Cannae, plus, it is presumed, eight allied alae, so Pythagorean ratios seem wholly irrelevant.During the battle, two le...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113342#msg113342

Published: February 3, 2025 09:09

Interesting, this will I expect continue to be discussed for many years yet but I heartily approve of folks doing their own estimations. Did you see the videos posted a little while ago by Chuck, I think the link here should work.https://soa.org.uk/sm...

Re: The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113341#msg113341

Published: February 3, 2025 09:04

I am confused by your reference to fourteen legions.  There were eight at Cannae, plus, it is presumed, eight allied alae, so Pythagorean ratios seem wholly irrelevant.  What are these six "flank" legions to which you refer? I would further observe tha...

The Frontage of the Roman Army at Cannae

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8919.msg113328#msg113328

Published: February 3, 2025 04:15

The frontage I have calculated for the Roman army at Cannae, which includes the Roman and allied cavalry comes to 1,400 yards. I've followed Polybius' description that the depth of the maniple was greater than its frontage, and I also have managed to k...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113327#msg113327

Published: February 2, 2025 22:40

I suspect that the Egyptians of the early and middle kingdom are not popular enough for the list writer to spend their time thinking about. They are archers, they are provided by a levy, so they must be "Bow Levy".

Re: Medieval Dog tricks....

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8916.msg113315#msg113315

Published: February 2, 2025 14:32

Quote from: Nick Harbud on Today at 11:16:38 AMI find these techniques can also work on small children.  My daughter has commented that I did use much the same techniques, but whilst I might have called her by the dogs name, it...

Roman pottery and human remains in Exeter dig

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8917.msg113313#msg113313

Published: February 2, 2025 14:02

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgx3vdy871o.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17385048072840&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.comHopefully both ancient....

Re: Yet another Syagrius vs Clovis

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8914.msg113310#msg113310

Published: February 2, 2025 11:48

According to the sources, Syagrius was eager to meet Clovis in battle and the defeat was a surprise. I could try the infantry wedge - it was something the Franks used later in Italy against the Byzantines at Volturnus. They successfully pierced the Rom...

Re: Alexander the Great quiz

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8910.msg113301#msg113301

Published: February 2, 2025 09:08

Quote from: RichT on February 01, 2025, 04:31:27 PM14/15  - I was wrong on number of wives (but right if it was number of weddings!)A common view is that torsion artillery was invented by engineers working for Philip II (not by him personally of ...

Re: Medieval Dog tricks....

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8916.msg113296#msg113296

Published: February 2, 2025 08:20

We are a dog family so enjoyed this read. We put time into training especially when dogs are young - result well behaved calm dogs. With what we are with specialist dogs these days they can be remarkably useful.

Re: Yet another Syagrius vs Clovis

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8914.msg113285#msg113285

Published: February 1, 2025 18:29

Interesting and well illustrated game report, with lots of pointers to how your rules work, which is always interesting.I wonder if Peter's 'Frank' foot army, really needs to imitate earlier German armies that used terrain to conceal positions and num...

Re: Alexander the Great quiz

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8910.msg113277#msg113277

Published: February 1, 2025 16:31

14/15  - I was wrong on number of wives (but right if it was number of weddings!)A common view is that torsion artillery was invented by engineers working for Philip II (not by him personally of course). How true that is may be open to debate, but ...

Re: Alexander the Great quiz

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8910.msg113271#msg113271

Published: February 1, 2025 14:47

Quote from: skb777 on Today at 01:49:04 PMQuote from: Erpingham on Today at 01:18:32 PMI thought Philip II was best known for developing the sarissa?Threw me a bit as well, although he did develop an artillery arm with...

Re: Alexander the Great quiz

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8910.msg113269#msg113269

Published: February 1, 2025 13:49

Quote from: Erpingham on Today at 01:18:32 PMI thought Philip II was best known for developing the sarissa?Threw me a bit as well, although he did develop an artillery arm within the Macedonian Army after he was suitably unimpress...

Re: White ship disaster of 1120

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8911.msg113243#msg113243

Published: February 1, 2025 08:34

Indeed.  Learned of this in history, with the anecdote that Henry I never smiled again, but never gave thought to all the others who died with his son and the wider impact this had beyond the succession crisis.

White ship disaster of 1120

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8911.msg113238#msg113238

Published: February 1, 2025 07:24

https://phys-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/phys.org/news/2025-01-historian-reveals-emotional-impact-white.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17383945553745&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113208#msg113208

Published: January 31, 2025 12:22

Quote from: stevenneate on Today at 11:07:06 AMInterestingly (for me) and perhaps somewhat absurd, Triumph has Old & Middle Kingdom Egyptian archers as Bow Levy. Thus they cannot shoot and struggle to fight their only enemies which are infa...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113207#msg113207

Published: January 31, 2025 12:15

This post from Tom Adamson in the parallel Indian archery topic might be usefulhttp://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8906.msg113201#msg113201This would suggest that distant shooting was a norm for Indian archers. It also suggests all archers would be ...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113202#msg113202

Published: January 31, 2025 11:07

Interestingly (for me) and perhaps somewhat absurd, Triumph has Old & Middle Kingdom Egyptian archers as Bow Levy. Thus they cannot shoot and struggle to fight their only enemies which are infantry.The Nubians (and Libyans) are rated as Archers so can...

Re: Warrant issued for Viking hoard thief

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8890.msg113193#msg113193

Published: January 31, 2025 09:52

Quote from: Duncan Head on January 27, 2025, 08:11:16 PMSlightly ironic given that the Vikings probably stole it in the first place.Maybe in that case a Viking punishment would be more appropriate than jail.Blood Eagles all round might be...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113186#msg113186

Published: January 31, 2025 07:23

Sounds like it. Maybe their combat ability comes down to garotting enemy with their Bow strings?For Chris' benefit, DBA Hordes is +3 vs Foot, +2 vs Mounted. Only Knights, Elephants or Warband roll over them by just outscoring them. So they can hold th...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113179#msg113179

Published: January 31, 2025 01:58

Cheers Steven,I have heard of Horde in DBA, but have NO experience with it on the tabletop. Bow Levy do have a +3 melee factor against Mounted and a +2 against Foot. At the same time, they are "shattered" if outscored by any Mounted unit/element in me...

Re: Indians vs Seleucids

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8868.msg113176#msg113176

Published: January 30, 2025 23:29

Just to get more understanding of Chris' game of Triumph with Classical Indians, the Indian "Bow Levy" are a bit like DBA's Horde, can't shoot but are better against mounted than foot. Please correct me if I am wrong.Consequently, and Triumph being a ...

Re: Aphrodite's Throw

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8895.msg113173#msg113173

Published: January 30, 2025 21:05

Quote from: Keraunos on January 28, 2025, 07:03:17 AMThis set me thinking whose knucklebones were used in the game, perhaps those of a recently deceased foe or a revered aunt?  I was disappointed to find that it is sheep bones that are used (handy i...

Re: Roman excavations at Faro

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=8907.msg113166#msg113166

Published: January 30, 2025 14:53

Of course, this thread has nothing to do with any citizens of Rome (either classical or more modern) putting trowel to ground whilst on holiday in the Algarve.  As the article makes clear, it is all about Portuguese archaeologists excavating some remai...

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