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The <a href="http://www.nanog.org/">North American Network Operators' Group</a> discusses fundamental Internet infrastructure issues such as routing, IP address allocation, and containing malicious activity.

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Posts: 71

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Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 4, 2026 00:35

Posted by Randy Bush via NANOG on Mar 03i suppose that, if we knew the prefix and ASs, a bored researcher could try to figure out if it was/is a zombie, noction, f5 cover-up, or whatever. i am not that bored researcher. and what would we really learn…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 22:23

Posted by Christopher Morrow via NANOG on Mar 03`held on to the route for 3 days` - noction much?

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 22:02

Posted by Randy Bush via NANOG on Mar 03of course. even for top posters :) Caitlin Gray, Clemens Mosig, Randy Bush, Cristel Pelsser, Matthew Roughan, Thomas Schmidt, Matthias Wählisch. BGP Beacons, Network Tomography, and Bayesian Computation to Locate…

RE: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 20:03

Posted by John Palmer via NANOG on Mar 03We just changed upstreams on Friday and the bgp.tools website still showed us as having both upstreams. Turns out some Russian site (AS69xxx or something) held on to the route for 3 days before it vanished. The…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 18:47

Posted by Tom Beecher via NANOG on Mar 03Presumably 'observed paths from inside 35280', but also think it's a misleading/confusing tool. From what I can see for that prefix ( 2a0d:3dc1:6789::/48 ) , origin is 4601 , paths is to 1299. ( 1299 25091 8298…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 18:44

Posted by Ben Cartwright-Cox via NANOG on Mar 03Is there a citation/paper for this claim?

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 18:43

Posted by Ben Cartwright-Cox via NANOG on Mar 03(bgp.tools owner hat on) It's entirely possible that things do actually get stuck in routing tables, and there [are/have been] some persistent bugs in especially Extreme OS around this particular failure…

Re: Information for ASPA creation

Published: March 3, 2026 18:43

Posted by Bryton Herdes via NANOG on Mar 03I'd strongly discourage providing any upstream provider "hints" in the ASPA UI. "Intent" and "observable state" of BGP relationships must not be confused. The "hint" feature merely opens the door for operators to…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 17:04

Posted by Hank Nussbacher via NANOG on Mar 03Excellent and useful feedback! Thanks, Hank

Information for ASPA creation

Published: March 3, 2026 16:31

Posted by Koen van Hove via NANOG on Mar 03Hello all! I am currently working on a better ASPA UI in Krill. The goal is to provide a bit more confidence when creating an ASPA record that what was entered is correct, and, more importantly, does not…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 16:11

Posted by Tom Beecher via NANOG on Mar 03Sounds like someone at F5 is trying to cover up an oops.

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 15:46

Posted by heasley via NANOG on Mar 03Tue, Mar 03, 2026 at 07:44:02AM -0800, Randy Bush via NANOG: does it matter? damping affects announcements, not withdraws.

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 15:44

Posted by Randy Bush via NANOG on Mar 03about 9% of ASs use damping with the old pad parms. randy

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 13:46

Posted by Philip Smith via NANOG on Mar 03Hi Hank, We simply record what is announced in the global table as seen by our 50+ collectors. It's not a question of trust or otherwise. ;-) If it is announced, and our collectors see it, it's real. Looks like…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 13:44

Posted by Jon Lewis via NANOG on Mar 03It does take time for route updates to propagate, and I've seen some providers/platforms take what seems like unreasonable minutes to drop routes after origination has ceased...but if they're hanging around longer …

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 09:59

Posted by James Bensley via NANOG on Mar 03Hi Hank, It is possible for routes to get stuck in the global routing table, although it is pretty rare. The is a project called the BGP Clock, they announce prefixes, then withdraw them, and then check if they…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 09:32

Posted by Benjamin Collet via NANOG on Mar 03Hi, F5 has a (real time) looking glass (https://lg.as35280.net/) and their BGP communities are documented in their AS object (whois -h whois.ripe.net as35280). It should easily tell you if they actually…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 09:18

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Mar 03For clarity, can you share prefix or add details. You should see withdraws propagate in seconds for most vantage points. In low single digit minutes anywhere but broken vantage points. When you say you see the…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 08:52

Posted by Elmar K. Bins via NANOG on Mar 03saku () ytti fi (Saku Ytti) wrote: Sir, following your explanation, I stand corrected and feel really old now. Elmar.

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 08:50

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Mar 03Sir, are you saying Internet convergence typically takes hours? Almost no one uses dampening, and it hasn't been BCP in years. Perhaps if we'd have dampening that reduces local-pref, it could be useful. DFZ all the…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 08:41

Posted by Elmar K. Bins via NANOG on Mar 03nanog () lists nanog org (Hank Nussbacher via NANOG) wrote: Local withdrawal does not result in *quick* global withdrawal. There's so much dampening involved, that you can get lucky, but that's not a given. If…

Re: Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 08:29

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Mar 03Occam's Razor would suggest F5 didn't withdraw it. What they say is possible (ghosting), but not the most likely explanation. I think the burden of proof is at F5, asking to review the BGP sessions for advertised…

Can route-views be trusted?

Published: March 3, 2026 08:14

Posted by Hank Nussbacher via NANOG on Mar 03Hi, We had F5 announce a /24 on our behalf.  We then asked F5 to withdraw that /24.  Route-views showed the /24 still being announced via an F5 path.  F5 claims that route-views is incorrect and the route had…

Re: not quite a core routing issue but I would appreciate any insight on IPTV and internet service

Published: March 2, 2026 22:12

Posted by Jeff Shultz via NANOG on Mar 02https://tv.youtube.com/ Seriously - just tell people to go sign up. No set top boxes, great recording features. Keep your organization out of it and you'll remain much happier.

Re: not quite a core routing issue but I would appreciate any insight on IPTV and internet service

Published: March 2, 2026 19:33

Posted by Josh Luthman via NANOG on Mar 02Call the local cableco/telco. Spectrum/Cox/ATT/Verizon/etc. On Mon, Mar 2, 2026 at 2:30 PM Andrew Kirch via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:

not quite a core routing issue but I would appreciate any insight on IPTV and internet service

Published: March 2, 2026 19:30

Posted by Andrew Kirch via NANOG on Mar 02Hi, The other members of the Condo Board I serve on found out I'm an ISP and now I'm stuck trying to find fiber internet and a preferably carrier neutral IPTV service. The ask is 1 gigabit of business fiber and…

Re: How to validate blackhole routes? (Was: trouble letting go of IRR)

Published: March 2, 2026 14:27

Posted by Bryton Herdes via NANOG on Mar 02The problem I see with performing originAS-only RPKI validation on more-specific routes—something DE-CIX route servers do [1] using a BIRD config knob [2]—is that some networks might use that originAS-only…

Re: How to validate blackhole routes? (Was: trouble letting go of IRR)

Published: March 2, 2026 13:16

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Mar 02Yes. Sort of pretending ROA allowed to /32 or whatever the specific may be, IFF there is a blackhole community attached. Ignoring active path.

Re: How to validate blackhole routes? (Was: trouble letting go of IRR)

Published: March 2, 2026 13:09

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Mar 02For sure, this while generating a prefix-list per customer, and one should be cognizant that a given IP prefix destination might appear in multiple prefix-lists. Indeed, there can be multiple plausible paths…

Re: How to validate blackhole routes? (Was: trouble letting go of IRR)

Published: March 2, 2026 12:13

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Mar 02Active path verification is dicy. - you can have multiple active paths, depending on POV - but if you receive more-specific paths, you will likely collapse to 1 POV - is blackhole desirable for all POV? Now you are…

How to validate blackhole routes? (Was: trouble letting go of IRR)

Published: March 2, 2026 10:27

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Mar 02Hello James, Yes, and in context of this discussion it probably is incumbent on you to provide such details :-) The summary on the last slide is key! Seven years ago, I intended to convey that perhaps the…

Re: AT&T Outage Contact

Published: March 2, 2026 06:27

Posted by TJ Trout via NANOG on Mar 01If you use an incognito window Express ticketing will likely work Here is the escalation list https://clec.att.com/clec_documents/unrestr/clec/common/Ethernet_Services.pdf

AT&T Outage Contact

Published: February 28, 2026 22:47

Posted by Eric C. Miller via NANOG on Feb 28Hello, does anybody have a working outage escalation list? Our contacts aren't answering on the weekend and express ticketing isn't letting us create tickets. It seems that nobody staffs their call center…

Weekly Global IPv4 Routing Table Report

Published: February 27, 2026 18:04

Posted by Routing Table Analysis Role Account via NANOG on Feb 27This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Global IPv4 Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG,…

Early Bird Registration Rates End Sunday + MORE!

Published: February 27, 2026 17:35

Posted by Nanog News via NANOG on Feb 27*** Early Bird Registration Rates End Sunday* ------------------------------------------------------------ *Register for our Next Conference (Jun.1-3, Bellevue, WA) + Save!* If you are serious about staying ahead of…

Re: Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 27, 2026 14:39

Posted by Bryton Herdes via NANOG on Feb 27I don't want to de-rail, but two of these AS-SET use-cases are extremely frightening and need better solutions. RTBH route hijacks are very real and extremely impactful. We know AS-SETs aren't the right solution…

Re: Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 27, 2026 09:41

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 27With AS-SET in practice most ports will have explicit prefix-lists ensuring they can only send very small subset of all prefixes possible. Some are trash, but most are pretty good. For most ports, we offer in…

Re: Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 27, 2026 09:29

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Feb 27Hello James, I'm indeed not sure there is a meeting of the minds on what problem it is we are trying to solve. What exactly is 'secure' about an AS-SET? How can those two words be used in the same sentence? As I…

Re: Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 27, 2026 09:07

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 27I would again like to mention a) RTR Real RPKI + AS_SET Prefix-list b) RTR Real RPKI + RTR AS_SET Gaps + AS_SET AS_PATH Origin If we look at these options unemotionally, and not get flustered about violating the…

Re: Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 27, 2026 08:50

Posted by James Bensley via NANOG on Feb 27Hi Job, I agree with your end goal, but I think your approach is flawed. I am not trying to be an apologist for IRR derived data, but fully deprecating AS-SETs actually weakens our current security posture, and…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 27, 2026 08:42

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 27I was being unclear, but now I notice, it doesn't actually matter. And I think your answer is 'yes, EOS does have a traditional regex, where atom is a character, not ASN'. But in this case, both will work. In Junos…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 27, 2026 07:16

Posted by James Bensley via NANOG on Feb 26No - we built a greenfield network a few years back so EOS only here and no prior NOSes to compare to. Sorry, I could have explained that better. Firstly ignore the "any" on that end, that is matching the BGP…

AS3356 Lumen/Level3 contact

Published: February 26, 2026 19:05

Posted by Marco Moock via NANOG on Feb 26Hello! I noticed some issues with the AS-Set AS-GBLX, as it is missing some of their transit customers. Other ISPs filter based on that. Does anyone here know a way to contact their network operators?

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 16:33

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 26Yes. But let's say I am tier1. It is likely entirely kosher for me to lock every other tier1 from non tier1 ports. Maybe this is anticompetitive to tier2, but maybe it is kosher. However, if I offer peerlock to say…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 26, 2026 16:10

Posted by Markus via NANOG on Feb 26Am 25.02.2026 um 22:33 schrieb Bryan Fields via NANOG: Thanks Bryan, this is basically what I was looking for :) Thanks to you I found: https://www.reddit.com/r/uptimeporn/

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 15:42

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Feb 26Both efforts represent multiple years of work, you are welcome :) I think you may be holding some of this upside down: by locking a select few ASNs in such that they can only appear behind specific BGP sessions,…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 26, 2026 14:29

Posted by John Kristoff via NANOG on Feb 26I looked for Slammer on lots of different vantage points a few years ago and no evidence it was still running anywhere on the public Internet. I'd be interested to see evidence to the contrary. I think it is dead…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 26, 2026 12:02

Posted by Mike Simpson via NANOG on Feb 26Point your ids onto the outside your inet interface and you’ll still see slammer, nimda (SadminD), comficker and all the other worms still scanning , still propagating.

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 10:08

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 26Mind, this is not rhetorical question. I want answers from Nanog. Are you comfortable for your tier1 to stop honoring AS-SET? Is it fine that AS-SET violating customer advertises your prefix to us, and we propagate…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 09:53

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 26Your other post is saying just ignore AS-SET. Your solution is actually below AS-SET security. Which I would need to market internally. I am trying to get rid of the prefix-list while maintaining AS-SET compliance. …

Securing EBGP while getting rid of big IRR-based prefix-list-filters (Was: How long AS-PATH policies have you used)

Published: February 26, 2026 09:41

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Feb 26Dear all, Securing one's EBGP perimeter is a challenge: how to do it? (Some slides: https://bsd.nl/publications/irr_out_rpki_in.pdf) Much of the information used to construct safe pass/nopass EBGP filters comes…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 08:41

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 26Either you generate a) prefix-list from AS-SET b) as-path filter from AS-SET c) fill RPKI /gaps/ with slurm from AS-SET In each case, the quality of the check is as good as AS-SET, which is bad. But in no case…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 08:34

Posted by Job Snijders via NANOG on Feb 26Dear Saku, Yes, you do. But the below plan probably is not it. Some comments & questions below. What is the purpose of this? What do you envision you could put in SLURM to trick your routers that wouldn't dillute…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 26, 2026 07:10

Posted by Saku Ytti via NANOG on Feb 25Thank you, very useful. I assume you've previously used. non-EOS platform, were you running a similar scale there? And much larger than I expected from a regex based solution, so highly encouraging that this could…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 26, 2026 01:03

Posted by Jon Lewis via NANOG on Feb 25In the real world, bugs force reboots, either to upgrade to code with different bugs or the bugs simply cause the reboot "automatically". Anyone else having fun with ACX7024 iTCO Watchdog Crashes recently? …

Re: Backhoes surround AT&T office in Arlington VA

Published: February 26, 2026 00:36

Posted by Rusty Dekema via NANOG on Feb 25I don't know about the 5ESS, but there is at least one DMS-100 in private hands: http://www.dms-100.net/telephony/nortel/dms-100/story/ (site does not support SSL; change it back to http if your browser decides…

Re: Backhoes surround AT&T office in Arlington VA

Published: February 25, 2026 23:11

Posted by virendra rode via NANOG on Feb 25------------ Almost extinct. You could try reaching out to Phil McCartier (https://stepswitch.us/). is known among telephone switch collectors. He still might have one in the back of his truck :) He donated a ton…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 22:01

Posted by John Kristoff via NANOG on Feb 25Still quite a bit of info exists. I wrote a brief retrospective a few years ago you might find helpful. I just made sure all the links still work, which might provide some additional historical anecdotes. …

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 21:33

Posted by Bryan Fields via NANOG on Feb 25Netcraft confirms: BSD is dying There's this well known boast of some guy's terminal server in Orlando: Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software IOS (tm) 3000 Software (IGS-J-L), Version 11.1(8), RELEASE…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 21:14

Posted by Justin Streiner via NANOG on Feb 25Lots of fun from the Slammer/Nimda days... Taking affected devices online was agonizingly slow on networks that were saturated and in many cases at that time had routers that used software-based forwarding. …

RE: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 20:50

Posted by Gary Sparkes via NANOG on Feb 25Not much beyond what remains posted around/online, but I remember a decent solid 2-days of reporting in major news networks about impacts from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_Slammer There's some…

Re: Backhoes surround AT&T office in Arlington VA

Published: February 25, 2026 20:18

Posted by Ethan O'Toole via NANOG on Feb 25Doh, was going to say can you ask them if they have any 5ESS hardware they don't want anymore? I want to rescue a minimum config one for home before they get scrapped.

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 20:11

Posted by Marco Moock via NANOG on Feb 25Am 25.02.2026 um 19:46:35 Uhr schrieb Gary Sparkes via NANOG: Is there any public info about that and how far the impact was?

Re: Backhoes surround AT&T office in Arlington VA

Published: February 25, 2026 20:03

Posted by Sean Donelan via NANOG on Feb 25The suit&tie managers and repair crews are gone. Just fresh orange call-before-you-dig marks on pavement and three people for each of the six backhoes (one operator and two watchers for each backhoe). …

RE: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 19:47

Posted by Gary Sparkes via NANOG on Feb 25Even 23 years ago, not quite the flex. Remember, SQL Slammer that took out / degraded large chunks of the internet? That vulnerability had been fixed in a patch released 6 months prior to that incident. …

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 19:42

Posted by Tom Beecher via NANOG on Feb 25Yeah, not the flex it used to be. If you publish a device's uptime, it's not hard to infer what OS might be on it, and know exactly how you can exploit that. Also agreed with Patrick, if you have any routers in a…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 19:36

Posted by Andrew Kirch via NANOG on Feb 25I... umm... have you consider applying security patches on these any time in the last 10+ years (I'm really not taking the time to do the math here)? Best practices are simply not to leave a system up unpatched…

Re: OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 19:35

Posted by Patrick W. Gilmore via NANOG on Feb 25Sorry, but what are you doing in a lab that requires 13 year old router OS versions?

OT: Routers with highest uptime

Published: February 25, 2026 19:30

Posted by Markus via NANOG on Feb 25Hi NANOG, in the past there was the Netcraft website which showed publicly "Servers with the highest uptime". Sadly that site apparently doesn't exist anymore. I'm wondering what are the routers worldwide with the…

Re: How long AS-PATH policies have you used

Published: February 25, 2026 19:15

Posted by James Bensley via NANOG on Feb 25... ... The largest AS path filter I can find on our network, is for one of our customers. The filter is 9002 permit entries long, each entry matches 8 ASNs, so 72016 ASNs in total. To clarify, one "entry" is…

SR-MPLS traffic engineering Survey

Published: February 25, 2026 16:58

Posted by Dekinder Florian via NANOG on Feb 25Hello community, I’m Ph. D. Student at University de Liège, Belgium, and I’m conducting a survey as part of my researches on Segment Routing (SR) traffic engineering practices among network operators. We…